Dear Waiting Thanks for the note! I am glad to hear that you are searching! And remember, with a large denomination an important factor is the pastor and the congregation. There are answers out there to at least many of our questions!
Jerry Bergman
JoinedPosts by Jerry Bergman
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
In response to: According to whom? Who gets to be the judge? You? Me? my answer would be neither of us but the facts as determined by a impartial investigation (and especially a scientific investigation). An example is, how do we know that the heart pumps blood? It was believed my most everyone that the heart was the mind and was the seat of the emotions (thus, when one got upset the heart would beat faster) until William Harvey proved that the heart is a pump that pumped the blood throughout the body. Everyone who is informed now acknowledges this (and if you doubt it you can do experiments that prove it) although in a 1971 article the Watchtower tried to argue that the heart was the seat of emotions! This blatant ignoring of reality was one of many reasons that I eventually left the Watchtower. They were wrong and it was not a matter of my or anyone else's opinion, but demonstrated fact. Likewise with religion, we should be able to at least prove in the same way at least some of the major ideas of a faith (and if any are proven wrong this says that we should look elsewhere). If I said the heart pumps blood, and you said that is your opinion, I could prove it to you by experiment if one was willing to look into it. The key is fact, not opinion.
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
Kingpawn: True the "we are the only way" mindset, which leads to smugness, superior feelings, jihad's, Crusades, and secular wars where the "Bible-based" churches have blessed the soldiers of both sides, among other "bad fruits." is a big problem but does this mean that all religious beliefs are equally good? Obviously not. Even though this is true, we still have to evaluate and research the truth and the validity of each religious belief (and all other beliefs as well). And we may find that some are valid, others invalid
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
mouthy
I do not know how the case with James Aldridge is going but wish I did. If anyone does, please let us know. Here is where we all could help a good human being (and this is one of many cases I know of which makes me angry at the court system).
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 20 December 2002 16:57:30
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
JD Degrees are part of who you are. If I started to spout about law (something I do know something about because I worked for a court for a time) and someone got on line and said "I am a law school graduate and a practicing lawyer" I would not take it that he was flaunting his degree but that he is trying to explain where he is coming from. I would than realize that I could learn from him and instead of trying to tell him what I know I would ask questions. As a Witness I was the butt of derision because of my schooling or education and have since then learned that some people value education. The reason for relating this part of my background is it tells one my background and part of the reason for my conclusions. If you said you were an Elder this would help me understand your views and perspective, and I would not take it that you were bragging. I think that this is important information, and I appreciate it. It is the same with education background, is it not? Should I hide it as if I was ashamed of it (as I did when I was a Witness)? PS I know I have a lot of people to respond to here, so be patient. I have to work for a living too! PPS Actually I rarely ever list all of my degrees and titles (AA, BA, MEd, PhD, MA, PhD, MSBS, LPCC, MPH, completing my MSOH, and almost a PhD in Corrections and almost a PhD. in Chemistry) but only that which indicates the background for my responce. Some have claimed that I should be up front with my whole background
Edited by - jerry bergman on 20 December 2002 16:52:56
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
Ray Actually, I had assumed that there were more cases than three confirmed cases of a mule giving birth. In plants it is very common for polysomy plants to reproduce successfully (actually they are more successful than the single set version called monosomy). A chromosome is only the unit that packages the genes and an animal can have 6 large chromosomes or 12 smaller ones. It is unusual but many interesting examples exist in cytology. Trisomy 21 (an extra 21) in humans is not rare and, although they have problems, can survive. As to neoDarwinism, no new information is created here, only damage to the storage arrangement so I fail to see how that supports any form of Darwinism. Actually it supports the degeneration idea.
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
Xander thanks for your comment! In response to But, just to be clear, you DO accept microevolution? Since the evidence is quite clear on THAT.... And you then hold that no amount of small changes could change a species in any *significant* way? ...which is all the macroevolution requires? I accept what the scientific empirical evidence supports. As there are at least 12 clear criteria that differentiate micro and macroevolution I would need evidence that supports the latter. One cannot simply assume that because micro has been documented that therefore if we "stretch it" we will get macro. They are two different things and require different mechanisms. If you know of evidence that supports macro let me know! I have been looking for 30 years (and don't claim mutations. No nwe information producing mutation has ever been proven).
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 19 December 2002 8:55:49
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
teenyuck I am glad things worked out for you (and I am in no position to condemn as I have made my share of mistakes). The fact is, the scientific literature has found that, in the long run, condoning living together before marriage is a mistake. We used to think that to live with someone before marriage would help to determine if the relationship would work. It turns out that, in the words of Dr. Stanley of the University of Denver and co-director the Martial and Family Studies department "If you want someone to marry, chose someone who won't live with you" They found in these cases that in general the commitment was lower , the divorce rate higher, and the marriage did not last for many other reasons. When I met my first wife I had no doubt that I wanted to marry her (and still have no doubt). When I left the Witnesses the marriage ended (we all know about that). When I met my second wife I also knew that I wanted to marry her and never wavered from this view. My first marriage would have worked out if it wasn't for the Witness problem. I did not need to live with her to know. A good friend lived with her husband for several years than married (now the marriage is on the rocks). Check out Dr. Stanley's work.
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
Xander This raises another whole new can of worms. I do not accept neoDarwinism nor macroevolution. The scientific evidence is quite clear on this point. By the way, I teach biology, biochemistry, molecular biology, anthropology, chemistry, and other sciences thus have covered this area in class and in my publications for over 35 years now. To go into this area will take pages and pages and if anyone is interested I could send articles on this topic.
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 18 December 2002 10:48:15
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 18 December 2002 10:49:36
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118
Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?
by Jerry Bergman ini have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.
some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.
most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.
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Jerry Bergman
seven006 Your first paragraph illustrates exactly why the study of apologetics is important! I have heard these concerns over and over and any basic apologetics course will answer them very well. The book "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell is a good introduction to the field (not without its mistakes and for laymen, thus oversimplifies, but a good start). Anyone who is serious about dealing with this issue (an excellent concern) must read this book.